Elizabeth Phillips has been principal of Public School 321 in Park Slope for 13 years, having started there as a teacher. Ms. Phillips has become one of the most outspoken critics among principals of how the city and the state are collecting data on student achievement and then using it to evaluate schools and teachers.
During a tour of her school, Ms. Phillips, 62, said that good teachers were the key to learning, and that her main job was to support her teachers. P.S. 321, with 1,407 children in prekindergarten through fifth grade, is a high-achieving school with an active core of parents. This interview was edited and condensed.
Q. What impact do you think public criticism from principals and parents is going to have on future tests?
A. I think it’s going to have an impact because it’s not a workable system. We are sworn to secrecy so we can’t reveal questions to the press, or the public or even to other colleagues. But kids don’t have those same limitations, and you have eighth graders blogging about it. With social media, I think you’re going to see more of this.
Honestly, in the 13 years I’ve been a principal, I’ve never seen such bad tests. Never. Not every part of them. There were parts that were fine, but enough of them that it truly is an outrage to think that a teacher’s job would depend on them.
Q. How do you define a good teacher?
A. I don’t know a single good principal who has trouble recognizing a good teacher. You do need a system where you can get rid of incompetent teachers, but it should also be one where you can improve teachers and also recognize quality teaching. If you have principals who have been teachers themselves who have spent time in the classroom, they know.
I’ll go into a first grade room. If I look in those book bins that those kids have on their table, I can see right away if the kids are well matched to their books by reading with three kids in the room. That’s without looking at the teacher. But it isn’t a uniform measure. That’s in first grade.
In fifth grade it’s going to be more about the quality of their talks about the books, more than what’s in their book bins.
Q. Do you think the administration has been supportive of principals and teachers?
A. No. There’s a gotcha mentality. I don’t think that it necessarily started out that way. I know there’s a problem in this city and in the country with a lot of kids not getting a high-quality education. But I think that separating the school problems from all the other social problems in the country — you have poverty, you have homelessness, you have kids hungry — that’s going to have an impact on them. We can’t pretend it doesn’t.
I also think that having an administration run by people who aren’t teachers or were never teachers, is a problem.
I also think this administration believes in just shaking things up, that it’s good for people to feel disequilibrium. I think that was a very deliberate policy and I did discuss this with Joel Klein.
I think the teacher bashing has a huge impact on who’s going to go into or to stay in teaching.
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