+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1

    PS 6 versus District wide G&T Program

    Hi all, the waiting game is finally over and we got the 2018 G&T result (for K) today. Looks like my daughter is going to within the district-wide program.

    We live in UES, close to PS6 (and zoned to there). It is a good school and reason why we live here, but now we are facing the question whether or not we should just send our daughter to PS 6, or other district-wide G&T program within a school we are less familiar with. For example, would you choose PS198 G&T program, or PS 6?

    I am sure this is likely raised previously, but I could not find the answer. Any guidance from experienced parents would be extremely appreciated. Thanks!

  2. #2
    I think you will be able to tell which school you like better once you have gone on the school tour. One benefit of G&T is the that you know the kids will be largely of similar abilities in the class and they all can more or less keep pace with the curriculum (vs in a GenEd school the levels of kids can vary significantly within a class). Plus, you can always switch back to the GenEd school (not the other way around) later if you, for some reason, don't like the G&T program

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by NYCDTM View Post
    I think you will be able to tell which school you like better once you have gone on the school tour. One benefit of G&T is the that you know the kids will be largely of similar abilities in the class and they all can more or less keep pace with the curriculum (vs in a GenEd school the levels of kids can vary significantly within a class). Plus, you can always switch back to the GenEd school (not the other way around) later if you, for some reason, don't like the G&T program
    That was an excellent advice and point. Thanks very much!

  4. #4
    Very happy to find this post from 2018. I have exactly the same question!
    We got Ps6 offer already. Got 99 G&T score. would list Nest+m, TAG, LowerLab. But not sure if other district 2 program, like Ps11 and 33 are worth listing? How are they compared to PS6?

    Thank you anyone who can share any thought.

  5. #5
    How did you get a PS6 offer already? I thought they wait for all the applications to come in before sending out offers.

  6. #6
    PS 6 is a very strong school. Last year, it was either the highest performing or second highest performing zoned elementary school in District 2 in terms of state test results, depending how you slice the data. It has an active and extremely well-funded PTA -- the 16th wealthiest PTA in the country in the last year for which public data were available. (To put it in some perspective, the per-student PTA revenue at PS 6 is 50% greater than the per-student PTA revenue at PS 11, which itself is the 30th wealthiest PTA in the country, and in absolute terms, the PS 6 PTA annually raises about as much money as the PTAs of PS 11 and TAG combined.) It may seem odd to focus on this, but PTAs pay for a lot of enrichments -- you may be surprised by how many of the things people find appealing about various schools are paid for by the PTA. So you have a very high performing school with an active, involved parental body, and thus it seems to me that the question you need to ask yourself is, What are you looking for in a school that you think you won't find at PS 6 but will find at a district-wide G&T, and is it worth what you'd be giving up? Going on the tours will of course give you useful points of comparison, but in the end it seems largely dependent on your family's needs, wants, and goals.

    For our family, it would be a tough sell to leave one of the 'superstar' zoned elementary schools (like PS 6, PS 40, PS 41, PS 87, PS 321, etc.) to go to another K-5 school, G&T or no, that required a non-walking commute. For us, commuting time is a significant opportunity cost, and looking only at the data -- I have no personal knowledge of PS 6 -- I'm not persuaded that a district-wide G&T provides enough additional value compared with a school like PS 6 to offset that cost. We put some value on acceleration, but not all of the district-wide G&Ts accelerate, and we put some value on being in a class of other high-achieving kids, but you'd already have that at PS 6. (For comparison's sake: In 2018, 95% of the general population at PS 6 scored proficient on the 3rd grade math exam vs. 98% at Anderson. That's a tiny aggregate gap. That's not to say that there's no average difference between kids at PS 6 and kids in G&T programs -- it may be that there is a distinction but state exams are too easy to discriminate among high performers -- but PS 6 has a really strong population, and I'd imagine that many kids there are city-wide qualifiers who just lost the lottery.) I'd have to be really bowled over by something I saw on a tour or some additional qualitative information I learned to leave a place like PS 6 for a district-wide.

    That said, you may value things differently than we do. Maybe you don't much care about the commuting cost, or you weren't crazy about PS 6 when you toured it, or you think the potential for acceleration offsets anything else, or you think a chicken coop and a pool are the most important things a school could have (in which case it's PS 11 or bust!), etc. Only you and your family can figure that part out.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by thewildrobot View Post
    PS 6 is a very strong school. Last year, it was either the highest performing or second highest performing zoned elementary school in District 2 in terms of state test results, depending how you slice the data. It has an active and extremely well-funded PTA -- the 16th wealthiest PTA in the country in the last year for which public data were available. (To put it in some perspective, the per-student PTA revenue at PS 6 is 50% greater than the per-student PTA revenue at PS 11, which itself is the 30th wealthiest PTA in the country, and in absolute terms, the PS 6 PTA annually raises about as much money as the PTAs of PS 11 and TAG combined.) It may seem odd to focus on this, but PTAs pay for a lot of enrichments -- you may be surprised by how many of the things people find appealing about various schools are paid for by the PTA. So you have a very high performing school with an active, involved parental body, and thus it seems to me that the question you need to ask yourself is, What are you looking for in a school that you think you won't find at PS 6 but will find at a district-wide G&T, and is it worth what you'd be giving up? Going on the tours will of course give you useful points of comparison, but in the end it seems largely dependent on your family's needs, wants, and goals.

    For our family, it would be a tough sell to leave one of the 'superstar' zoned elementary schools (like PS 6, PS 40, PS 41, PS 87, PS 321, etc.) to go to another K-5 school, G&T or no, that required a non-walking commute. For us, commuting time is a significant opportunity cost, and looking only at the data -- I have no personal knowledge of PS 6 -- I'm not persuaded that a district-wide G&T provides enough additional value compared with a school like PS 6 to offset that cost. We put some value on acceleration, but not all of the district-wide G&Ts accelerate, and we put some value on being in a class of other high-achieving kids, but you'd already have that at PS 6. (For comparison's sake: In 2018, 95% of the general population at PS 6 scored proficient on the 3rd grade math exam vs. 98% at Anderson. That's a tiny aggregate gap. That's not to say that there's no average difference between kids at PS 6 and kids in G&T programs -- it may be that there is a distinction but state exams are too easy to discriminate among high performers -- but PS 6 has a really strong population, and I'd imagine that many kids there are city-wide qualifiers who just lost the lottery.) I'd have to be really bowled over by something I saw on a tour or some additional qualitative information I learned to leave a place like PS 6 for a district-wide.

    That said, you may value things differently than we do. Maybe you don't much care about the commuting cost, or you weren't crazy about PS 6 when you toured it, or you think the potential for acceleration offsets anything else, or you think a chicken coop and a pool are the most important things a school could have (in which case it's PS 11 or bust!), etc. Only you and your family can figure that part out.

    Dear thewildrobot, I cannot express how impressive your respond is to me. super helpful and telling the nature. We will think about it, and thank you very much!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by brooklynparentoftwins View Post
    How did you get a PS6 offer already? I thought they wait for all the applications to come in before sending out offers.
    it's a zoned public, offer was in March.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by dongyao19860324 View Post
    Very happy to find this post from 2018. I have exactly the same question!
    We got Ps6 offer already. Got 99 G&T score. would list Nest+m, TAG, LowerLab. But not sure if other district 2 program, like Ps11 and 33 are worth listing? How are they compared to PS6?

    Thank you anyone who can share any thought.
    You may wish to look at PS6's US DOE Blue Ribbon application from this year. I was surprised to learn they have begun using Responsive Classroom and viewed that as a plus. When we toured last year, how PS6 addresses social-emotional learning was a question asked of the principal and her answer seemed to be "it's just woven into everything." It seems like they've taken some bigger steps on this front.

    I don't claim to know the in's and out's of the various programs / approaches they are using. It seems that almost all G&T programs I've seen say they use Teachers College for Reading and Writing -- PS6 does too. PS6 uses "NYC Passport to Social Studies" for... Social Studies. For math, it says they use a "constructivist" approach but they don't speak to a specific program like Singapore Math or EngageNY or Investigations, etc. Science is based on NYCDOE Scope and Sequence. Kids use lots of Google software on Chromebooks.

    If anyone has experience with or views regarding these specific approaches to the various subjects, I'd be interested in hearing about it, especially as it compares to the various district G&T options. Thanks.

    Also @thewildrobot, I think what you said is very thoughtful and well-reasoned. I'm curious if your answer remains the same after touring the various G&T open houses this year.

  10. #10
    I'd note that you have to look closer at the data to see the difference btw G&T and a good GenEd. The city releases the granular data by school.
    https://infohub.nyced.org/reports-an...a/test-results
    Most results on schooldigger are based on what percentage of kids were proficient (a 3 or 4) and does not differentiate btw a school that had 100% of the kids score a 3 vs a school that had 100% all 4's.
    Based on 2018, (i'll compare 4th grade as that's the grade that matters for middle school admissions, but the general point is valid for all years and all grades) 90.7% of PS6 scored a 3 or 4 for ELA and 90.8% for math, vs Anderson 98.1% for both ELA and Math. (So a small but material difference). (using an average of past 3 years the difference is larger, 88% and 88% for PS6 vs 97.6%/99.4% for Anderson.

    Looking deeper, for 2018 ELA 33% of PS6 students scored a 3, vs 9.4% of Anderson students, 57.7% scored a 4 at PS 6 vs 88.7% at Anderson. For Math, 17.3% scored 3 for PS6 vs 3.8% for Anderson, 73.5% scored 4 vs 94.3% for Anderson. I'd say those difference are quite material. you can look at the data yourself and come to your own conclusion, but i wouldn't take the data on the surface and say kids are performing the same at the two schools.

    I agree for 2018 3rd grade the aggregate difference was just 95 vs 98%, But 31.9% scored 4's at PS6 vs 56% at anderson, in 2017 the gap was much wider, 30.6% scored 4's at PS6 vs 83.6% at Anderson.

    Certainly you have to take everything into account when choosing what's best for your family but there is a large variance in academic performance, 20-50% more kids are scoring 4's vs 3's on the state tests (just one measure of performance, but the only one we readily have available to analyze).

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts