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Thread: PS 33 vs PS 11

  1. #1

    PS 33 vs PS 11

    Hi -


    We got into PS 33 and are planning to accept, but found out we are very highly ranked on the waitlist for PS 11 (which I had obviously initially preferred, as I ranked it before PS 33). I spent all weekend convincing myself that 33 was great, and now am confused about what to do if we get into 11 (which I had initially been much more excited for). I am slightly concerned about the lack of HW at 11 - has anyone with kids there found this to be an issue? Any other insights or thoughts also welcome!


    Thanks!!

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by fidi_mom View Post
    Hi -


    We got into PS 33 and are planning to accept, but found out we are very highly ranked on the waitlist for PS 11 (which I had obviously initially preferred, as I ranked it before PS 33). I spent all weekend convincing myself that 33 was great, and now am confused about what to do if we get into 11 (which I had initially been much more excited for). I am slightly concerned about the lack of HW at 11 - has anyone with kids there found this to be an issue? Any other insights or thoughts also welcome!


    Thanks!!
    I'm not at PS11 but just make sure you're aware of the construction going on there -- it was sort of glossed over briefly during the open house and I found it surprising that they weren't more upfront about it. I may have this wrong but I think it affects the rooftop playspace area's availability. Don't know how long it's going on.

  3. #3
    I don't have any answers to your questions, but I do sympathize: We found PS11 to be the hardest school to rank, as it's so much more progressive (in the educational-philosophy sense) than the three Manhattan citywides and the other D2 district-wides we visited that comparisons involving PS11 never felt quite like apples-to-apples -- it seemed like whenever we discussed it, what we were really talking about was what kind of approach to education do we think is best in the abstract and best for our particular kid, which were much harder questions to answer than, say, which school is the most convenient or has better middle-school placements. (So I guess we should thank the PS11 principal for forcing us to have those difficult conversations even as we curse him for making us go back-and-forth a million times!) Best of luck to you!

  4. #4
    I'd like to know as well. I have read into many forums that the G&T program at PS 33 is not as good as it once was because of the new principal. Would love to hear from parents whose children are in the G&T program to provide insights on the quality of the G&T at the school.

  5. #5
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    Don't have a true answer either which school is better or what you prefer. However, from a practical process, accept PS33 offer then wait on PS11 waitlist. And in between the time your family can dig deeper into each school if needed to, then making that final decision if PS11 waitlist offer does come.

  6. #6
    I couldn't locate any information at PS 33 website in regards of the G&T program and what they teach. Which is why if any current parent can give some information, that would help with the decision.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by zenmaster88 View Post
    I'd like to know as well. I have read into many forums that the G&T program at PS 33 is not as good as it once was because of the new principal. Would love to hear from parents whose children are in the G&T program to provide insights on the quality of the G&T at the school.
    The principal at PS33 started there four years ago, so there's data that may help shed some light on this question. A comparison of the NYS test data from the last year of the previous principal's tenure with the most recent statistically comparable year shows that PS33's ELA results two years after the new principal took over were better substantially better than during the last year of the previous principal's tenure (69% proficient and 49% at the highest level vs. 56% proficient and 22% at the highest level). In Math, the overall proficiency fell slightly, but performance at the highest level ticked up slightly (67% proficient and 50% at the highest level vs. 70% proficient and 46% at the highest level). You couldn't make any kind of causal claim about the current principal, obviously, but at the very least you could say that if she's associated with a decline in quality, that decline is not being captured by the state test data at this point, and if outcomes were substantially better under the previous principal, those outcomes are also not reflected in the state test data. There were 46 G&T fifth graders at PS33 this year according to the DOE; at the G&T presentation, they said that 12 (26%) were heading to Lab Middle School, 10 (22%) were heading to Salk, 5 (11%) were heading to NEST, and 3 (7%) were heading to Clinton. It would be interesting to see how that compares to a year under the previous administration, since those are impressive numbers, but I don't know how you'd get that data now.

    My understanding from talking to a few parents at PS33 is that the principal situation is . . . complicated. The previous principal started the G&T program and was widely seen as having turned the school around, so no replacement was going to compare well to her. The previous principal also apparently had a very distinctive style (set very high standards, was very no-nonsense, etc.) that many people valued. The current principal is not a great public communicator -- she even said as much during the G&T tour -- so the contrast was apparently quite marked. The current principal also came in when the first rumblings of the DOE's big equity push were happening, so it sounds like she became associated with that in many people's minds, and since the previous principal isn't around to carry out the equity push, I'm sure it's easy to imagine that she would have handled it better than the current principal does.

    I've seen all those same comments about the current principal, and I get where some of them are coming from (we weren't very impressed with her in the presentation, though she was much better one-on-one), but I'd need to see some non-anecdotal data about overall outcomes or G&T-specific outcomes to be persuaded that there's been some big drop in quality. Half the school is G&T, so if the G&T kids truly were substantially better off under the previous administration, you'd expect to see that reflected in the aggregate data in some way, and it's just not. Maybe there are non-quantifiable ways in which the previous administration was better for G&T students, but that would seem to get into the realm of personal preference.

    Long story short, we looked into this question about as thoroughly as we thought we reasonably could, and we were satisfied that if the current principal has weakened the program in some way, it's not in a way that we care about. YMMV.

  8. #8
    fidi_mom...we are registering at PS 33 this week, wait list for PS11. In the meantime we have convinced ourselves PS 33 is a better fit for our son, both academics and enrichment. Its a much smaller school (600 vs. 900 at PS11) and with 1:1 G&T/GenEd, more influence/power for PTA to course correct (PS11 is 2:5 G&T/GenEd).

  9. #9
    Fidi_mom - We are also very high on the PS 11 waitlist (very low single digits) and will matriculate at 33. Our biggest issue when we looked into this same comparison was first, the renovation at PS 11, which apparently means no playground for a few years?!?! My kid needs to run around so that is not great for us. Also, the principal at 11 does not believe in G&T at all, has publicly said (I think) to the effect that he would like to eliminate it ... and I had a very tough time signing up to send my kid to a G&T where the principal doesn't believe in the program. We did rank it higher simply for its much better logistics for our daily commute, but we didn't get it, and if we get an offer I am almost 100% sure we will decline and stay w 33.

  10. #10
    I am a current PS11 parent and my understanding is the construction is going on for at least a year. My kids are graduating this year so I haven't been on top of it, but half of the big yard is out of commission and I think the roof is too. My 5th grader has to play on the street for recess and is not thrilled about it.

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