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  1. #11
    Everyone should call their local City Council member and let them know that screened schools and G&Ts are important to you; make them more widely available, if anything. The anti G&T movement gains traction because they are vocal. The thousands of families who take the G&T test every year are not as vocal. If you don't know who your City Council representative is, enter your address and borough here, and find out: https://council.nyc.gov/districts/

    Call them. Tell them where you stand. Tell the staffer who answers the phone that you want to know where the City Council member stands.

  2. #12
    Article "Possible tweaks to NYC school admissions include lottery system, prior test scores"


    https://nypost.com/2020/05/09/doe-ca...ol-admissions/

  3. #13
    Someone help me understand this guy [Carranza] because before I start really writing to the politicians, I want to make sure I understand the complete picture. I already know that Carranza & DeBlasio are always trying to be the "social justice warriors" for the underprivileged. They want to see more diversity, more blacks/hispanics in better schools -- I get it. But scrapping the G&T test so that every black/hispanic can get in is obviously NOT the way.

    Let's just say, for example, that there aren't enough asians in the NBA. And let's also say (just for example sake, please don't get offended!) that asians aren't as tall as blacks/whites and that's why there are so few asians in the NBA.....so would the solution be to make the NBA rim 8' tall (rather than 10' tall) in order for asians to have a better chance??? I mean, I personally would be offended if I was black/hispanic and the only way I got into Stuyvesant (or any NYC grade school that required a test) was because Carranza & DeBlasio got rid of the testing criteria! Further, let's just say Carranza & DeBlasio successfully gets rid of these entrance exams. Now what? Stuyvesant would have a more heterogeneous diversity yes, but would it be the Stuyvesant of the same reputation as before, heck no!

    I can't wrap my head around why Carranza & DeBlasio just don't see it like this??? There must be another agenda they're fulfilling that I'm missing. If they want more black/hispanics into G&T programs or the specialized high schools the answer is to offer free test preparation programs or advising to this population (or any population that can't afford it)....NOT TO SCRAP the test all together!

  4. #14
    It's even worse than that. The problem is that even their proposal would not have accomplished a great diversity result. And it's provable: there is already a bunch of screened school that are unable to accomplish it so removing the SHSAT just doesn't follow. Furthermore, they have taken situations where schools were already 95% hispanic which is success in their book and stopped it. As well, it's the black families with high percentages who are not going to their zoned schools in addition to going to charters and special students of color only programs. So, go figure. But even if they can't accomplish what they're saying they're going to drag everybody down with them anyway. As you say once the level of quality is fully removed it's been dismantled and those school will no longer be those school; it won't be the beginning of the end, it'll be the end of the end. And we'll just be back to every school being your zoned school.

    At the end of the day when narcissistic behavior etc is in play to control a populace trying to rationalize the illogical is futile.
    Passionate tutor of Elementary School subjects specializing in NY state tests, and the specialized high/middle school tests (SHSAT, Hunter, TACHS/CHSEE, ISEE, SSAT, ERB, ...)

  5. #15
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    Here is my take, and I may be wrong, but it does look like the goal, according to the ideologically-political agenda, is to allow race/gender-based re-balancing of society. That is, allow for all underrepresented groups, who never had power in American society, to now have it at the expense of groups that have had it.



    That includes removing of "merit based" systems, such as test scores, and other objective measures, as those are also a result of power privilege.



    This is the essence of identity politics. It is not the achieve racial/gender diversity, as in "balance" in society, but rather, the allowance of domination of the non-privileged. That is, to let the pendulum swing ALL THE WAY in the other direction from white/male/straight dominated society to non-white/non-male/non-gendered society.



    If you take this filter/lenses and apply it to all their actions, it will start to come together and make sense.


    If you read the theory identity politics, you may have a different take, bit that is mine.


    I do understand that stance, and it does make sense, to achieve justice for those who have suffered in the past.



    This is my take.

  6. #16
    We all understand the premise of that stance/take. At least I do.
    Passionate tutor of Elementary School subjects specializing in NY state tests, and the specialized high/middle school tests (SHSAT, Hunter, TACHS/CHSEE, ISEE, SSAT, ERB, ...)

  7. #17
    That is the goal but the actual implementation in NYC actually hurts underrepresented groups w/o power (i.e., Asian, immigrant, etc.).

  8. #18
    Extremely interesting to see the thoughts of "folks"when you think no one else is in the room. First of all the G & T classes are a farce. They are filled with kids that have been highly coached and had prep classes to get into classes that teach the way any decent school should be teaching. See most suburban schools of which I got my education. The kids are hardly gifted in the true sense of the definition. My son is not gifted. He's a bit of a smarty pants but I would never go around claiming him to be gifted. Secondly, the schools are making a very clumsy attempt at trying to have more equity but as parents of white children..don't YOU want your kids to be in a class with kids from various backgrounds and teachers with different perspectives? I'm sure most of you flock to the polls to vote Democrat while obviously working hard to maintain the status quo that benefits you behind the scenes. I live in District 2 and am zoned for a so called exemplary school AND my child passed the G& T with a score high enough to go to a Citywide but how detrimental will it be if he attends a school that is predominantly white with all white female teachers? However, I am faced with the choice of him having either social dysmorphia from such an education or opportunities to go to a top middle school?? How is that even acceptable in New York City? How can you argue against initiatives to bring equity to the most diverse and most segregated school system in the country? My child (whom is mixed race blk/wht) currently attends a progressive school in District 1 and it espouses the values that seemed to be most representative of what society needs to better itself. It does not have as high of test scores but I'm hoping that he is gaining a larger education that just having high test scores. If you think your children are somehow getting into these programs and the tests are somehow an equalizer then it is deliberate ignorance on your part. I took my children to the specialized Music School exam (did not pass, I blame their Dad )) and the majority of kids at that school are white and Asian. Kids at age 4 are tested for their natural rhythm. I take Senegalese dance and my teachers 4 year old son can play the drums like a rock star but he doesn't have access or knowledge about the test. All the children in the Bronx or Harlem that are raised from day one with music and dance do not have knowledge of these tests. My friend that is music teacher at a highly ranked LI suburban school said kids have rhythm classes from age 3. In addition, the test givers are also not representative of these children. Yet the standardized tests are fair? There is and will always be bias. There is an entire educational system that has been established and built from one perspective and its why everyone is not able to succeed. The fear that I read in all of these comments of you possibly losing this position shows that maybe you did not fairly earn it because if you did you would have nothing to worry about. I'm not sure what the solution is in all honesty, but the current system does nothing more but perpetuate inequality. Personally, it doesn't make sense that diversity initiatives only draw from underprivileged groups of color. This is also a disservice. So... white privileged kids that have basically zero exposure to kids of color then sit in a class with the one or two kids that were recruited from the projects only to perpetuate the stereotype that these "types" of kids are all poor? Only to have to prove themselves doubly that they belong there. See above comments from parents. I come from a solidly middle class background. I went to a highly rated college ( Spelman which is nice so I never have to defend my merits of getting into a select school to white people that think it comes from affirmative action) , and my parents went to college and everyone I know. Isn't there merit in kids having the experience of being around young Barack Obamas or Sonia Sotomayors? However, because I realize I come from a privileged background I would much rather that seat go to another child of color that does not have the same opportunities as my son. Without these half- baked initiatives all G & T programs would look like LL I suspect and parents would not care. Perhaps if G & T was taken away the schools would work harder to provide an education that helps ALL students excel instead of just the students that have parents that are able to subsidize the success of their educations. Even though, my child currently benefits from such programs I would fully support a system that properly addresses the huge educational gap that currently exists in public school education. But yeah... you know... I'm Black so I care about the children of color "being left behind" even though it is not my child.

  9. #19
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    That is why I like TAG - and why is TAG so diverse? Why is Anderson not, and TAG is? It is proof of what you are saying - diversity can happen unenforced! It seems more accessible, is located in a undeserved neighborhood. If Anderson is moved to the Bronx, what do you think will happen? Do you think so many white kids will commute there? What they are doing is moving the Bronx and Harlem to Anderson, but that may not work either. Maybe they should just open more programs like this, at least one/two in the Bronx (since it is truly prohibitive to commute from the Bronx to NEST for example). The answer is to expand resources, not swap them by taking them from one group and giving them to another.

  10. #20
    I feel the need to dissect Hachilove's arguments...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hachilove View Post
    First of all the G & T classes are a farce.
    So you say it's a farce? You're already contradicting yourself just by virtue of having sent your kid for the GT test.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hachilove View Post
    The kids are hardly gifted in the true sense of the definition.
    It's fine for you to believe this, many parents do. Heck, I will even admit that my child (who currently resides at a G&T program) has many classmates who I would not deem as truly gifted. But be that as it may, that is one person's opinion. Certainly not the gospel you may think it is, so all you have is an opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hachilove View Post
    I live in District 2 and am zoned for a so called exemplary school AND my child passed the G& T with a score high enough to go to a Citywide but how detrimental will it be if he attends a school that is predominantly white with all white female teachers?
    Well kudos to you, seeing as how you sent your kid for testing for a program you claim as a farce one has to wonder if you're even telling the truth here. Anyway, I don't think having teachers of one race is detrimental. So long as your child is not closed minded nor stupid....but that's not possible (the stupid part) seeing as how he passed with a score good enough for a citywide as you claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hachilove View Post
    How is that even acceptable in New York City? How can you argue against initiatives to bring equity to the most diverse and most segregated school system in the country?
    Really, is that all you have? To make schools equally diverse at the cost of potentially compromising the degree of education that it currently offers....just so my child can realize there are other people outside of his race in this world? I don't know about you but I'm plenty confident that my child (as with majority in G&T schools) is smart enough to realize there are many races out there outside of what he is seeing at school.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hachilove View Post
    My child (whom is mixed race blk/wht) currently attends a progressive school in District 1 and it espouses the values that seemed to be most representative of what society needs to better itself. It does not have as high of test scores but I'm hoping that he is gaining a larger education that just having high test scores.
    Again kudos to you. I'm glad you (once again) have an opinion. And if you and other parents feel so strongly about sending your child to a diversified school elsewhere outside of your district then more power to you! But allow those parents that want their child in a district school that is G&T because they too are allowed an opinion, right? Don't go around trying to scrap our plans on G&T education when clearly NO ONE is trying to scrap your progressive district 1 schooling.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hachilove View Post
    If you think your children are somehow getting into these programs and the tests are somehow an equalizer then it is deliberate ignorance on your part.
    I reiterate....you did test your kid for G&T right? Such irony once again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hachilove View Post
    In addition, the test givers are also not representative of these children. Yet the standardized tests are fair? There is and will always be bias.
    At some point we all have to face that facts: NO TEST will ever be completely free of bias. But does that mean to simply scrap it? LOL heck no. Simply relying on test scores (as Carranza or DeBlasio alludes to) is definitely not free of bias....it's not even standardized! In order to normalize test score differences from various schools (because we all agree that not all schools are equal) we simply NEED standardized testing to determine merit. Even if there is a slight amount of bias in it. I have yet to hear a better alternative.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hachilove View Post
    The fear that I read in all of these comments of you possibly losing this position shows that maybe you did not fairly earn it because if you did you would have nothing to worry about.
    Another non-sense argument here, FULL of holes. We all want what's best for our kids, even if we have faith in their abilities to succeed. If we feel they are handicapped then we would want the same amount of support for our schools to help them REACH THEIR POTENTIAL. Likewise, if we feel our child is gifted (or if they successfully demonstrated this virtue on the G&T test) then we would want them adequately challenged in school for them to REACH THEIR POTENTIAL. Thus, if the DOE does not provide an adequately challenging environment for our gifted kids then why is it fair that they are providing adequately challenging schools for the mentally handicapped?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hachilove View Post
    However, because I realize I come from a privileged background I would much rather that seat go to another child of color that does not have the same opportunities as my son. Without these half- baked initiatives all G & T programs would look like LL I suspect and parents would not care.
    By LL are you talking about Lower Lab? What's the stereotype with that school? If you mean it's very low in minorities and/or lower socioeconomic class students then the solution is to even the playing field by providing assistance in test prep or student guidance. NOT by scrapping the program! <-- what kind of nihilist/asinine attitude is this anyways??? You're selfishly depriving the deserving students of what they earned in order to calm your nerves about your kid not being at their level.

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